Recently I had a chance to sit down with a couple of the most creative people in the world of learning and development: Kassy LaBorie and Betty Dannewitz, to talk about training and to answer the question: If learning is supposed to be a process, not an event, then what is “training” (the event) even good for?

Listen to this week’s podcast for some answers from two very smart people who come from very different backgrounds… stay for the first ever edition of Train Like You Listen Trivia to find out who was crowned the first ever champion!

Introduction 

Brian Washburn: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Train Like You Listen, a podcast about all things learning and development in bite-sized chunks. I’m Brian Washburn, I’m your host. I’m also the Co-Founder of Endurance Learning, and I do lots of other things which I can get into later. But right now I want to let you know that I’m joined today by Kassy LaBorie and Betty Dannewitz.

We’re going to be talking to two people who have lots of experience, but they have very different lenses through which they’ve experienced learning and development. So, we’re going to get into that in just a second. But before we do any of that, I do want to mention that Train Like You Listen is brought to you by Soapbox.

Kassy, have you ever used Soapbox?

Kassy LaBorie: I have. I love it.

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLES)

Kassy LaBorie: Remember, I had to design a new certification and I was like, “I’m bored of everything I’m doing.” You’re like, “Use Soapbox.” You gave me all sorts of new cool ideas, which– some of which ended up in the book that’s coming out in the fall. So it’s cool.

Brian Washburn: Ooh!

Kassy LaBorie: And, you know that you gave me some quotes for that stuff too.

Brian Washburn: We’ll get to some shameless plugs at the end for that. I love that. Betty, have you ever used Soapbox?

Betty Dannewitz: You know, I have used Soapbox and I am a Super Fan. In fact, I think that if you looked in your CRM system, it says, Betty Dannewitz – Super Fan. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that’s how I’m listed.

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLES)

Betty Dannewitz: Yeah, I think Soapbox is great, especially for folks in learning that, you know, you’ve got so many things going on and you’re trying to think of a new idea. This helps you tremendously. So, love it.

Brian Washburn: Yeah. And so for those people who are listening and they’re like, “What is the Soapbox? People have used it. It’s awesome. But what is it?” So, Soapbox is an online tool that you can use maybe for five or ten minutes, and you can take care of 50 or 60% of the work when it comes to developing a live, instructor-led training. So basically you go in, you tell the computer how long your presentation is, how many people are going to attend, whether it’s in-person or virtual, what your learning objectives are. And then Soapbox will instantly generate a training plan for you that has clusters of training activities that are designed to help you accomplish what it is that you set out to accomplish and what you want people to be able to do by the end of your training. Don’t just listen to me and Betty and Kassy babble on about it. If you want to try it out for free for two weeks, go ahead and visit www.soapboxify.com.

Okay. Enough of the shameless plugs to start, or at least my own shameless plug. I want to get into the questions. I’m here with Kassy, who is a Virtual Training Expert and an OVTH. If you’re wondering what OVTH is, that’s the Original Virtual Training Hero. I’m also here with Betty, who is the Betty from If You Ask Betty, and she’s also an immersive experience designer. So we have people with some really cool experience but some different experience.

And, before I get into the questions, obviously I wanna let you introduce yourselves. Unfortunately, I’ve already babbled on for too long, so we don’t have a ton of time. You have exactly six words to introduce yourself. So why don’t you start us, Kassy?

6-Word Bio

Kassy LaBorie: “Virtual training from blah to a-ha!”

Brian Washburn: Ooh, I like it. And there was a little hyphenated word in there too to sneak in the six words. How about you, Betty? How would you introduce yourself if you only had six words?

Betty Dannewitz: “Think differently. Be bold. Have fun.”

Brian Washburn: All right. We have a declaration from Betty. And for both of you, I want to start out just by asking you– because a lot of people who are listening to this have fallen into training in some way, shape, or form. It wasn’t what they studied in college. How about you both? How did you learn to do what you’re doing? And we’ll start again with Kassy, you know, your specialty is virtual. How did you even learn how to do this stuff?

How Did You Get Started Doing What You’re Doing?

Kassy LaBorie: When I first thought about answering you, Brian, I said, “The bumper car method! Try it!” And then “No, that didn’t work. Change direction, try this again.” But honestly, I have a background in theater and public speaking, and naturally, I got a job as a trainer. And then I got a job that said, “Teach people how to use this software.” So that was as a Microsoft trainer a long, long time ago. And then I went to work for WebEx. And so I learned to do what I’m currently doing today because of that. And then just all the different experiences throughout that process.

Brian Washburn: I love that story just because you kind of find something that you’re doing like, “Meh, I could do this.” And then you get another opportunity to do something else, and it’s like, “Ooh, actually, I kinda like this.” 

Betty, what’s your story? How did you get in– I know that your focus, especially, you know, you do immersive learning, but you’ve started to emerge as a leading voice when it comes to augmented reality, virtual reality. How did you even get into doing what you’re doing?

Betty Dannewitz: So I was given an assignment by a senior leader to “be innovative.” I don’t know if you’ve ever had a manager say, “Hey, can you go be innovative?” Sure. And so she said, “You got to do something innovative.” And I was like, “Well, sometimes we bring donuts to class. I don’t know if that counts.” She was like, “No, I was thinking something more like augmented reality.”

And I left that meeting and I literally Googled “What is augmented reality?” Because I had– at that point, I had no idea. And so that sort of led me on like a journey to figure out what is this? How can we add it to learning? And once I actually, like, did it – like, I learned about it, I did it, and it was like a light bulb went on and opened like– it, like, lit up all these areas of my brain that had otherwise been sleeping, I guess. And I was like, “I need to talk about this some more because this is amazing. It has so much potential and it’s so easy and inexpensive.” So yeah. So that’s kind of where it started is someone told me, “Hey, you need to be innovative.” And I was like, “Okay.”

Brian Washburn: And I think one of the reasons why I like talking with both of you is because you’ve found your passion. Like, this isn’t just kind of what you do to make money or what you do in order to get health insurance or whatever it is. This is your passion and you definitely hear it when both of you are speaking about your, kind of, respective areas of specialty. Now, when you take a look at articles that are written – if you take a look at learning and development on Twitter or LinkedIn – there’s a lot of people out there saying, “Ah, I don’t know if we need training. It’s an event, right? So you can solve things, a lot of things, with job aids, or you can do this or that. You don’t even need training.”

There is always, I think– my opinion is going to be, there’s always going to be a space for training – the event, right? So when I talk about training, I’m talking about either classroom instruction or virtual instruction or eLearning – so learning experiences that are focused and timeboxed. I’d love to hear from both of you, and we’ll start Betty with you this time. What do you think training – the event – is for?

What Is Training For?

Betty Dannewitz: So I really think that training’s about passing on knowledge to help the participant be better at something, right? So be better at your job. Be better at, you know, this functional work item. Be better at being a better human or being a good human. Like, those– that’s kind of, like, if you were to take the 50,000-foot view, is we’re trying to pass knowledge on to help people become better. And we’ve also added in– let’s also give them opportunities to practice, to apply, and those things are all great. But really the number one thing we want to do is pass on this knowledge so that people can be better. That’s my thoughts and feelings.

Brian Washburn: Yeah. Kassy, what do you think?

Kassy LaBorie: Yeah, I would agree with that. And this idea too about immersing, like an immersion or immersing you in the experience so that you have something that you can relate to and then ultimately recall. I think about language and learning a language. We can go– like I can go listen to French and I can try to read French. And I can take classes on French at some level, but this idea that if we can in the moment that we’re in the event, as you mentioned, immerse in it. It’s like they–a lot of times people learn a language because they moved to the country and they watched television, right? So this idea of immersing in it. 

And so I think it’s very important that maybe like people have said, “I don’t need the training” because they’ve had the experience of someone just sort of telling them stuff. Where what’s important to me is that we have the relationship happen and the conversations and the things that are challenging that, really, we only get the benefit of learning from other people. You know, like I don’t want to bring people together and read to them because then people might say, “Well, I didn’t need to do that.” I want to bring people together to have that experience together of what we can’t have in a different way, you know? And trying to find that is the key thing, actually. I think.

Tricks to Help Learners Remember

Brian Washburn: Yeah. And one of the things I think that both of you do really well, just using different types of technology or different media, is you find ways so that people don’t just listen to something, but they can remember it later. And I’m kind of wondering what are some of the tricks that you have when you’re designing training in order to help people learn and remember so that when they are two weeks removed from that training, they can be like, “Oh yeah, I learned this thing and I can use it now”?

Kassy LaBorie: I think people need to do stuff and they are capable of doing it when they want to. So we have to help work on motivation, and I think that’s about helping them to relate to why they care about it, you know? And then try to draw upon experiences that they’ve already had, so they can build on that and then try it and then make sense of it in their own way. You know, I always tell people when they’re joining my classes, I’m like, “Listen, I don’t want this to be ‘The World According to Kassy.’ I like to share some things with you that I’ve learned along the way, but let’s make this ‘The World According To You.’ And I can share some stuff and let’s do things together and figure it out.” Because ultimately people do things that they want and that makes sense to them.

And so it’s our job to help them find that and figure out how they’re going to apply it in their own way, with their personalities, and their content, and the industries they work, and heck, the mood they’re in that day, whatever it may be.

Brian Washburn: And Kassy, you live in this world of virtual training, and you just mentioned one way to get people to remember things is to have them do stuff. What are some things that you actually do in a virtual training? I was just actually, literally before this, I was talking to a client about their presentation they have coming up and they said, “We’re going to kind of talk about it for 30 minutes. Then we’ll have 15 minutes of Q&A,” because they had a webinar. So they’re like, “I mean, that’s what we can do, right? We have slides. We’ll talk. We’ll let people take themselves off mute. We’ll give them 15 minutes of Q&A.” That’s one way, but you mentioned “doing.” What are things that you can actually do virtually?

How To Get Learners to “Do Things”?

Kassy LaBorie: Well, I have this mantra – “What did I just do that you could have done? What did I just say that you could have said?” And so before I’m about to say, “Hey, here’s ‘The World According to Kassy’ and what I’ve learned,” I will first ask people “What do you know? What do you think? What’s your experience?” And so then “the doing” or “the saying” is them sharing that. And then I use that when they go, “Oh, hey Betty, you know how you said that you have found this works for you? Check it out! Look at my process and how closely related that is to what you just said, although a little different. What do you think? How might you change it in a way that you use it?” 

And so I’m just constantly asking people to be part of whatever I might be sharing, with an openness to saying, “You know what? They might interpret it differently and they might take it and do it in a different way, but ultimately what’s important to me is that you’re successful and that you’re trying things.” I just kind of know it too. I have, you know, a teenager. He is almost not a teen anymore, but he doesn’t listen to me at all. So, you know, having people be inspired by and see a model of that they can then make sense for themselves.

So, you know, and features are one thing. You notice, I didn’t say, “Put them in a breakout.” I mean, it’s not about that. The features drive whatever you’re having them do, whether that be through conversations or exercises, you know, to make sense of things. I mean, if you want like a specific example, one of my favorite things to do, instead of saying “Here’s the process,” I like to just pull the process up on the screen as a visual and then say “What do you notice about it?” Type a thing in the chat, circle something there, raise your hand if you want to talk, which they never want to talk. So the other two work. (CHUCKLING) But after they typed it or they’ve circled it, they’re more willing to talk. And then we can take what they’ve said and have them do something with that. Create something. Show me an example of how that might work for you.

Brian Washburn: I love that. And Betty, I know that you work in a tot–you use a totally different canvas, right?

Betty Dannewitz: Yeah.

Brian Washburn: I’d love to hear some of your thoughts in terms of how do you get people doing stuff?

Betty Dannewitz: Sure. Well, I love what Kassy said about making them do stuff. And I tend to make them talk to each other. So, you know, I like to make them share their experiences. So for example, if we’re talking about augmented reality, I might say, “I want you to turn to the person next to you and talk about where have you seen augmented reality? And what do you think about it?” And so what that does is a couple of things. One, it forces them – in a nice way – to connect with somebody else in the classroom who is having the same experience as them. And you can do this virtually as well. You could have them do that virtually as well, but it forces them to connect. But then it also forces them to talk about how they feel about something.

And here’s the thing – when we talk about how we feel about something, we’re more apt to listen to what other people are saying to see if it affects how we feel. And so I like to use that feeling word. Like, “How do you feel?” Like, “What are your thoughts and feelings about this particular thing?” So that’s one thing. 

Using Pop Culture References During Training Events

Kind of going back to your main question, if that’s okay. Like, I definitely agree, do st– make them do stuff, make them talk to each other. I try to come up with a story or have some level of story because people love story. And this is my super sneaky like we’re giving away the farm here, I’m telling you my secrets, okay? I love to throw a pop culture reference that most people will get or will understand enough because that triggers dopamine, and then they’re happy. Like for example, I’ll throw up an augmented reality example of a quiz about Schitt’s Creek and everyone who watches Schitt’s Creek is like, “Oh my gosh!” Like, because there’s this flood of dopamine. Now granted, it’s really more like a drip, but nevertheless, like it hits your brain and they’re happy and they feel very rewarded because they know what that is and they can totally solve this quiz, right? So it’s that whole relatable thing. And then people that have never seen the show typically know of the show and they can see how other people are excited. So I throw that pop culture reference.

One time I created this like basically how to have effective meetings and laced throughout the whole thing was Office Space. And whether you’ve seen it or not, doesn’t really matter because you’ve definitely seen a meme from Office Space. And, you know–and by the end of it, you learn what the red stapler was all about just in case you never– you know what I’m saying? So it’s like and people, they loved it. They– like you could see them on camera just smiling. And like they will listen harder if there’s something that really, you know, connects with them. And I think a lot of that– Kassy and I are saying a lot of the same thing. I’m just ruthless and shameless and use pop culture references all the time.

Kassy LaBorie: I do it too, Betty. Actually, I do like, “We’re going to do movie and television reference days. So I’m going to have quotes throughout our time together.” And I’ll just be like “name that movie” or “name that show” in the chat. And so somebody says something and I’ll go, “Thank you for your candor.”

Betty Dannewitz: Yes!

Kassy LaBorie: And I’m like, “Did anyone get it? Does anyone get it?”

(All laughing)

Brian Washburn: Yeah, I’m going to need to move on the question. That would be great if we could move on. But if you could give us the TPS reports…

Betty Dannewitz: Otherwise we’ll be here working the weekend.

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLES) That’s right. That’s exactly it.

Kassy LaBorie: It’s not the weekend?

Brian Washburn: So last question, we’ll start with you, Betty. Before we actually get into a bunch more questions that I have for you but in a different format. So the last question that I have for you, where there is no right or wrong answer, is other than training, what are some things that you’ve created that help people pick up new knowledge or adopt new skills? So we talked about kind of the event and the importance of the event. But outside of the event, what are some other things that you have used or worked with or created that help people be better at what they do?

Sharing Knowledge or Building Skills Outside of Training Events

Betty Dannewitz: Sure. Well, my top one is podcasting, right? I mean, I don’t know if you know this – I have a podcast. Do you know that, Brian? I think you do. I feel like right around episode nine, you figured it out. I could be wrong about that. But yeah, I have a podcast, and I love to have people on who either have great ideas or an awesome story and just kind of help people learn that way. 

Presenting at conferences, I mean it might– maybe it falls into the training bucket, I think it’s more of a sharing of knowledge. Like rather than actually trying to teach somebody, it just depends on the type of session that you have. 

And then mentoring and coaching folks, you know, just really– you know, when you have a good conversation, if you need to have another, being willing to put in that time and help people sort of understand the concepts that they’re trying to grasp. So that’s what I would say.

Brian Washburn: It’s almost like you’re reading from this periodic table of elements of other things that you can do.

Betty Dannewitz: The one that’s right behind you. Oh, look at that!

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLES) Kassy, what about you? What are some things that you do, just outside of the event, that help people to be better?

Kassy LaBorie: Yeah much like what Betty said, the conferences, I see that the same way, just opportunities to connect. And, I put a few books out there on the topic too, so people can read it on Friday nights, for sure. I’m certain that’s when people are reading my books.

Brian Washburn: Beach read? Summer’s coming up, right? So, beach season? People need beach reads. So what are the books again?

Kassy LaBorie: Interact and Engage and Producing Virtual Training, Meetings, and Webinars.

Brian Washburn: Both are page-turners. Both are perfect for, you know, sitting on the beach, kind of thumbing through. I can’t recommend them enough.

Kassy LaBorie: That’s so nice and right back at ya. And then the other thing that I did that I think is really mostly just inspiring me is I put together the Virtual Training Hero Hangout, which is a community of people that just want to talk about virtual training on Fridays. And that’s been happening the last Friday of the month. And so it’s an open session, we do it for 45 minutes, and I’ll present a little bit on a hot topic. And then people just network and communicate with one another, and they’re learning and sharing. I found that to be always in my career, one of the best ways to learn how to be a better trainer is to watch another trainer that I admire. And so that was the motivation for bringing people together and it’s working.

Brian Washburn: And it’s the last Friday of the month. What time does it take place?

Kassy LaBorie: Most of the time I’m doing it at 11:00 AM Eastern for 45 minutes. Although, sometimes I do run an afternoon one. So the schedule is posted, though, up on my website and all are invited.

Brian Washburn: Excellent. So I can talk to both of you for hours and hours, and I think that would be fun. I’m not sure that all the listeners want to hear that. And so, we’re going to end our time here together doing something a little bit new. We’re going to try the first-ever Train Like You Listen Trivia Challenge.

So the way this is going to work, for people who are listening, is I’m going to toss out a training or training adjacent question, and the first person to know the answer needs to buzz in by saying their name, they’ll get control. And if they answer correctly, they get a point. If they answer incorrectly, the other person has an opportunity to answer. The first person to five points will be crowned the inaugural Train Like You Listen Trivia Challenge Champion. Are you ready, Kassy?

Kassy LaBorie: I’m ready!

Brian Washburn: Are you ready, Betty?

Betty Dannewitz: I was born ready.

Trivia Challenge

Brian Washburn: All right. Question number one: who wrote the book The Adult Learner and is widely seen as the Father of Adult Learning Theory? I see people thinking hard. No answers. Malcolm Knowles.

Kassy LaBorie: I was gonna guess it. I need to trust myself. I was going to guess that.

Kassy LaBorie: Yeah. I didn’t Google it fast enough.

Brian Washburn: Were you trying to Google it, Betty? (LAUGHING) All right. Question number two. Here we go. Right now, the score is zero-zero. Question number two is: what does CPTD stand for?

Betty Dannewitz: Betty.

Brian Washburn: Betty.

Betty Dannewitz: Certified Professional Training Design?

Brian Washburn: So close, but not quite there. Kassy, do you want to take a guess?

Kassy LaBorie: Do I have to say my name? Kassy. Certified Professional Training and Development?

Brian Washburn: Certified Professional and Talent Development.

Kassy LaBorie: Ohhhh, we should know that with ATD!

Brian Washburn: ATD.

Betty Dannewitz: We should know.

Brian Washburn: All right. So far, we have on the scoreboard zero-zero. So, close game. I think that this next one is going to be pretty easy. It would be for me. What is Brian’s favorite food?

Betty Dannewitz: Betty.

Brian Washburn: Betty.

Betty Dannewitz: Ice cream.

Brian Washburn: Ice cream is correct! Betty is on the board, one-nothing. Very nice. Next question. Who wrote the book Interact and Engage – 50 Activities for Virtual Training?

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy….Kassy!…Kassy wrote it.

Brian Washburn: Kassy.

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy and Tom.

Brian Washburn: That’s right, Kassy LaBorie and Tom Stone. So that book – Interact and Engage – 50+ Activities for Virtual Training, Meetings, Webinars – you can find that on Amazon. All right, next question. We are tied here at one-one. What company is best known for their situational leadership program?

Betty Dannewitz: Betty.

Brian Washburn: Betty!

Betty Dannewitz: The Ken Blanchard Companies.

Brian Washburn: Ken Blanchard Companies is correct.

Betty Dannewitz: Really glad I didn’t get that one wrong.

Kassy LaBorie: I felt like I had to let you get that one, Betty.

Betty Dannewitz: I agree.

Brian Washburn: All right. Then this next question is a true or false question, so be careful if you answer incorrectly, the other person will probably get it correct. All right. So true or false: learning styles.

Betty Dannewitz: Betty.

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy.

Brian Washburn: Betty.

Betty Dannewitz: False.

Betty Dannewitz: It is false.

Betty Dannewitz: Kassy knew that though. She knew the answer.

Brian Washburn: She did.

Kassy LaBorie: I said my name, and I think I said at first but… Maybe. Sorry.

Brian Washburn: Next question, which professor at Hogwarts tended to wear pink outfits and was one of the most hated villains in the Harry Potter series?

Betty Dannewitz: Aw, I know this.

Kassy LaBorie: Pink outfits?

Brian Washburn: I know Kassy’s like, “Pink? That’s my color.”

Kassy LaBorie: That’s my color. Why don’t I know this? Oh, she’s Googling.

Brian Washburn: She is Googling. Nobody knows the answer. The answer is Professor Dolores Umbridge.

Betty Dannewitz: I know it!

Kassy LaBorie: Oh, of course. Yeah. I mean, she’s like– I knew I saw the pink sixties suit in my head.

Betty Dannewitz: I could see her in my head.

Kassy LaBorie: I could see her too, I just did not remember.

Brian Washburn: Terrible villain. All right. Next. So right now we have Betty at three, Kassy at one. How many levels of evaluation are included in the original Kirkpatrick Training Evaluation Framework?

Betty Dannewitz: Betty.

Brian Washburn: Betty.

Betty Dannewitz: Five.

Brian Washburn: Five is incorrect.

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy.

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy.

Kassy LaBorie: I’m going to go with six.

Brian Washburn: The correct answer is four.

Kassy LaBorie: Oh, I thought it was more than that. The key word there was “original” wasn’t it?

Betty Dannewitz: Sneaky.

Brian Washburn: Yeah. People try to add level zero, level five. All right. Where are we? Okay. What technology company owns WebEx?

Betty Dannewitz: Betty.

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy.

Brian Washburn: Betty.

Betty Dannewitz: I was faster than you. I don’t know what to tell you.

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLING)

Kassy LaBorie: I heard myself first!

Brian Washburn: What did you say, Betty?

Betty Dannewitz: Cisco.

Brian Washburn: Cisco is correct. Betty is running away with this. All right. Here, I got a question for you. What scent is a red Mr. Sketch Marker?

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy.

Brian Washburn: Kassy.

Kassy LaBorie: Did the audio work this time?

Brian Washburn: Yes!

Kassy LaBorie: I want to do– I want to request that you do raise your hand next time as we have proof of who clicked first.

Brian Washburn: (LAUGHING)

Kassy LaBorie: I’m going to go with cherry.

Brian Washburn: Cherry is correct. We have Kassy at two, we have Betty at four. Kassy is hanging in there. What is the seventh letter in the English alphabet?

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy.

Brian Washburn: Kassy.

Kassy LaBorie: G!

Brian Washburn: G, that’s correct!

(ALL LAUGHING)

Brian Washburn: The comeback is on! Next question. If you’re using Microsoft Word, what is the keyboard shortcut to copy something?

Betty Dannewitz: Betty.

Kassy LaBorie: Kassy.

Brian Washburn: Betty, for the win!

Betty Dannewitz: Command C, on an Apple.

Brian Washburn: Oh, on an Apple.

Betty Dannewitz: Control C on a Windows.

Brian Washburn: Okay. We’ll give it to you, Betty, for the win.

Betty Dannewitz: YAY!

Kassy LaBorie: I said my name at the same time again!

Betty Dannewitz: Oh, wow. She’s salty about this.

Brian Washburn: She is! That said, it sounds like we need to have a rematch on an upcoming episode.

Betty Dannewitz: Anytime.

Kassy LaBorie: With raised hands, raised hands.

Brian Washburn: I got to see a different side of Kassy and its the competitive–

Betty Dannewitz: The salty part.

Brian Washburn: You always strike me as one of the nicest people on the planet. However, I have seen…

Kassy LaBorie: So, wait, people that are nice are not also competitive?

Betty Dannewitz: Very competitive. I’m not competitive at all. So I don’t know anything about that.

Kassy LaBorie: You’re not, Betty? That’s why you said you were born ready?

(ALL CHUCKLING)

Brian Washburn: Well, thank you both for joining me, and thank you everyone else for suffering through our first-ever edition of Train Like You Listen Trivia. I’ll try to come up with some better questions. If you have questions you’d like to have answered in Train Like You Listen Trivia, drop me a note. If you’d like to compete on Train Like You Listen Trivia, drop me a note.

And if you like what you heard, and you think somebody else can benefit from it, go ahead and pass this along. If you want to make sure that you’re notified of a new podcast when it’s hot off the press, make sure you subscribe at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Even better is if you could go in and give us a five-star review because that’s how people find us.

If you’re interested in learning more about a broad range of learning and development strategies, including things outside of the classroom like Betty was mentioning earlier, you can pick up a copy of my book What’s Your Formula? Combine Learning Elements for Impactful Training amazon.com. And until next time, happy training everyone.

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